Two bidding problems. Concluded.

October 28, 2009 at 9:47 am 8 comments

Regarding the first of these hands, it’s clear there are a lot of issues. What is the forcing status of 2D and of 2H, if bid over 2D? I’m with the majority who begin with 2C on this hand. If you start with 1H the only way you get lucky is partner raising them. In my opinion the forcing status of 2D doesn’t really matter. Even if it is limited and non-forcing, which is my preference – ie it is a bid which is descriptive – it still does’t mean that hearts isn’t cold for game.

The hand was given to me by Khokan who suffered playing 3C on his six heart hand when this was the layout and the auction:

xxx
AKJx
A10xxx
x

x
109xxx

AKJ10xxx

N S
1D 2C
2D 3C
P

Meanwhile in the other room, South hit the jackpot with a 1H initial response which got his side to 4H.

As Khokan notes, it would be useful to generate a bunch of hands and actually see statistically what is best to do. One of those things bridge players always think about doing but rarely find the time for!

Firstly:

sx
h1109xxx
d1
cAKJ10xxx

(1) What do you respond to 1D? More questions to come on this one, but we’ll start there.

There is consensus to respond 2C.

(2) So, what now after 2D from partner?

See you all tomorrow for a defence problem.

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Entry filed under: bidding.

Two bidding problems continued. Man or mouse?

8 Comments Add your own

  • 1. phil markey  |  October 29, 2009 at 12:50 am

    “If 2D is non-forcing, I am interested in the types of hands with which responder can pass. Does it mean with a good 14-count and 6+ diamonds you have to jump to 3D?”

    why wouldnt you jump to 3 diamonds with that hand ?

    i play that pard can rebid 2 diamonds over 2 clubs with a weak 4441 – 1d/2c is a special auction but i havent found a pressing need to have system to solve the problem – if responder has a problem over a 2 diamond rebid he has already solved it before he got there

    re this hand generally – if my side has 9 spades and half the highs and doesnt bid there are going to be questions asked after the set

    Reply
    • 2. Chris Mulley  |  October 29, 2009 at 9:35 am

      I prefer my 3D bids to be a bit more committal as to strain, as I am chewing up bidding room. Still, to each his own.

      I strongly agree with your final comment – that was the major reason for me choosing 3C rather than 2H over a non-forcing 2D.

      Reply
  • 3. Chris Mulley  |  October 28, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    If 2D is non-forcing, I am interested in the types of hands with which responder can pass. Does it mean with a good 14-count and 6+ diamonds you have to jump to 3D?

    As someone mentioned (particularly playing weak NT, 5-card majors), the dreaded 4-4-4-1 can be an issue. The way Paul and I get around it is:

    2D: F1, 5+ D, can have 4M, even with reversing values.
    2H: 4-4-4-1, F1
    2S: GF Club raise
    2NT: Strong NT
    3C: NF club raise
    3D: GF, strong 6+ card diamond suit
    3H/3S: Splinters

    My understanding is that in 2/1 GF, 1D – 2C is usually not treated as being GF.

    Reply
    • 4. Richard  |  October 28, 2009 at 11:21 pm

      “My understanding is that in 2/1 GF, 1D – 2C is usually not treated as being GF.”
      I wouldn’t say usually. It can be so treated. Or, you can have it just as GF as all the other 2/1 sequences, and use 1D-3C as NF invitational. I’m not a 2/1 expert (or even afficionado), but I think that’s the way Hardy wrote it up originally. When it comes to popularity, I don’t know which is more widespread, but there are a lot of Hardy fans in the US.

      Reply
      • 5. Chris Mulley  |  October 29, 2009 at 9:44 am

        I play something similar myself, but I didn’t know it was so popular.

        Reply
    • 6. cathychua  |  October 29, 2009 at 6:57 am

      If 2D is non-forcing, I am interested in the types of hands with which responder can pass. Does it mean with a good 14-count and 6+ diamonds you have to jump to 3D?

      That depends, doesn’t it? It is clearcut playing my preferred methods because opening bids are quite limited by the usage of Acol Twos. For those who play a system where one level openings include a lot of more-or-less gamegoing hands without the HCP to open 2C, they may not be able to do this. But why would there be an issue rebidding 2D with a good 14 HCP? The hand on which partner is not going to take another bid is a weakness takeout sort of 2C where he is happy enough with 2D to pass rather than bid his club suit again. Bids are allowed to have ranges!

      I fail to see that I am worse off if my range is non-forcing but, say, up to around the hand you suggest, compared with having little descriptive value, ie ‘forcing’. Two clubs was a meaningless – because ‘forcing’ – bid. Now we add another meaningless because forcing bid…look at the huge overload on your 2D rebid.

      Reply
      • 7. Chris Mulley  |  October 29, 2009 at 9:42 am

        The 2D rebid is definitely overloaded in our methods, but it is overloaded in an auction where it is not going to matter. We find the 4-4 major fits by responder bidding 2M (F1) and we play 2NT and 3C by responder as GF (we would bid an initial 2NT or 3C in response to 1D to show the invitational versions).

        I guess it is a bit of a relay philosophy – if you can resolve the ambiguities later, the initial overload does not matter so much.

        Reply
  • 8. jill  |  October 28, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    even tho not so many points, i think after 2D rebid, that the powerful shape allows for a revers-ish bid of 2H

    Reply

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